C41 |
I
think I understand it. I mean I think I understand it. I think I can
see their individual perceptions and how entrenched they are. It's just that
I don’t want to die before I've resolved it, or
they’ve resolved it, or it’s resolved.
|
|
F41 |
And where is that want? A want not to die before it’s resolved?
|
|
C42 |
That’s in there with the other wants [wipes tear from eye]. Like little Russian dolls [gestures with hands].
|
|
F42 |
Wants within wants, little Russian dolls. And you don’t know how long you’ve got. And where did the pollution of that cloud come from?
|
Decide to see if there is anymore about "pollution cloud" last mentioned C27-C30.
|
C43 |
[Big
sigh, looks up high for the first time] I think it’s been
building up over the years. Building up over the years. It
hasn’t been dealt with in a timely fashion.
Not that I haven’t tried. And so it’s just built up and built up until
it’s on the point of exploding. |
"Building up" is client's metaphor for what we have temporarily referred to as 'escalation' (C37-C38).
"point of exploding" is a threshold.
|
F43 |
And when pollution cloud has been building up over the years, and it’s on the point of exploding, what would that pollution cloud like to have happen?
|
Same question as in F30 & F33 but this time it is asked of "pollution cloud" rather than "you".
|
C44 |
What
would the cloud like? It depends whose side the cloud is on. If the cloud is on my side it would like to float away and just not be
there anymore. If the cloud is on their side, I don’t know
what they want anymore. And if the cloud is just an aspect of a
malevolent universe then it will do what it wants to do.
|
Interesting response but it doesn't answer the question. Presumably "cloud" knows which "side" it is on (if clouds have sides that is!)
|
F44 |
It depends whose side the cloud is on. And if on your side, which side is your side?
|
Hoping for a spatial answer to keep the client's Metaphor Landscape embodied.
|
C45 |
My side is in the reconciliation.
|
No luck but interestingly "reconcile" originally meant in Latin 'bring back together' which is spatial.
|
F45 |
Your side is in the reconciliation. And there’s your side and their side. And malevolent universe.
|
|
C46 |
Possibly.
I’m not going to close the books on that. Well I say
there’s their side, as if they’re united.
They are united in the sense that they tell me to stay out of it.
|
Ah, so they are "united" ('joined together') about something.
Also an example of the 'mirror principle': they are not doing what she wants, and she is not doing what they want.
|
F46 |
They tell you to stay out of it. So they’re united in telling you to stay out of it.
|
|
C47 |
They’ve got that in common.
|
|
F47 |
Otherwise they’re not talking. And so then what happens when they tell you to stay out of it? And they’re united on their side about that.
|
Aiming attention at the effects of them being "united".
|
C48 |
They
don’t tell me that at the same time. It’s when I
have a conversation with them separately. Well I argue, and say
it’s not in my nature to stay out of these things, things
that matter to me. I’m an interventionist by character. I
can’t just sit by and watch things happen. And unless a
conversation begins – even if the beginning is going to be
awkward – unless a conversation begins there’s no
way to build. And they say, well one of them says it will
happen in it’s own time. It might take 5 years, 10 years, 20
years. And the other one says it will happen when I’m ready
but I’m not ready. It won’t happen before
I’m ready.
|
"build" again (C43) but in a positive sense this time.
Lots more indication that the client knows her "really want") is unlikely to happen in her timescale.
|
F48 |
And then what happens?
|
Continuing with effects.
|
C49 |
Well, it goes on.
|
|
F49 |
So you’ve been interventionist.
|
|
C50 |
To no avail
|
|
F50 |
To no avail.
|
|
C51 |
Yes,
that’s why I said at the beginning, I want to to resolve it.
I want something to resolve it. But in the fact of the fact that it
doesn’t look like that’s happening, I want it
resolved inside me. [Touches chest] I want to stop living with it.
|
"Stop living with" the inner "angst, and start to "live with" the outer unresolvable situation.
|
F51 |
So what is inside you there [points to there]?
|
A non-standard CLQ to identify "it".
|
C52 |
That’s what’s inside me – the conflict [touches chest with right fist].
|
More evidence of the inside (internal "conflict") mirroring the outside (children in conflict).
|
F52 |
The conflict is inside you. What kind of conflict is it there?
|
|
C53 |
It’s a heaviness.
|
|
F53 |
Anything else about the heaviness?
|
|
C54 |
A sense of failure, I suppose. My failure.
|
|
F54 |
A sense of failure, your failure, a sense of heaviness, a conflict. Does that heaviness have a size or a shape?
|
|
C55 |
[Long pause, looks out the window] It weighs about a kilo. I don’t know about it’s size or shape.
|
|
F55 |
It weighs about a kilo. Anything else about it when it weighs about a kilo?
|
|
C56 |
It’s there all the time.
|
|
F56 |
So
when there’s a heaviness that weighs about a kilo and
it’s there all the time and that's the conflict in
there, after you’ve tried all those interventions,
you’ve banged your head against that brick wall, and it is
how it is, and there’s that [points] about a kilo of heaviness, what
would you like to have happen?
|
Recapping client's reality before asking what she would like – given "it is how it is". (Same formulation as F30, F33 & F43.)
Not sure where that "brick" came from!
|
C57 |
I want to take the kilo out [touches chest with right fist].
|
A Remedy.
|
F57 |
You want to take the kilo out.
|
|
C58 |
Give
it to them. [laughs] No, not really give it to them. I think they feel
bad about it in regard to me, but not so bad as to try to resolve it.
|
|
F58 |
So when you take that kilo out, then what’s there?
|
A non-standard CLQ that uses the client's logic to aim for a desired outcome statement
|
C59 |
[Wipes tear away] I suppose the kilo is made up of the pain and want and what’s left is acceptance.
|
"Acceptance" again (see C8 & C18-C24).
|
F59 |
So taking the kilo out takes the pain and the want, and what’s left is acceptance.
|
|
C60 |
That’s how I see it at the moment.
|
|
F60 |
And then what happens when acceptance is left when the kilo has been taken out? |
Seeking for the client to attend to the effects of her desired Outcome happening. |
C61 |
Well I imagine I stop thinking about it, worrying about it, wanting it to be different. I stop being their mother, I suppose, in one way.
|
Repeat of "less of a mother" (C7).
|
F61 |
What kind of way is that way?
|
Developing the effects.
|
C62 |
The way that a mother can know what’s right and know what’s best in the long run, not in the short run, in the long run. And want the best for her children. That part.
|
|
F62 |
And that’s the part you’ll have to stop.
|
|
C63 |
Well, so long as I keep wanting it, the kilo is still there. So if I want to get the kilo out, if acceptance relies on the removal of the kilo, then yes, my mothering is going to have to change shape, I suppose.
|
Client spontaneously identifies some conditions necessary for change.
Not for the first time the client "supposes" (see C2, C6, C7, C34, C38, C54, C59, C61).
|
F63 |
What kind of shape does it have to change to?
|
|
C64 |
Or have a big chunk of it cut off. And change in temperature.
|
|
F64 |
Shape and temperature. Any other ways does it have to change?
|
|
C65 |
If it changes shape it will probably change weight too. Be less heavy.
|
|
F65 |
So shape, less heavy and temperature.
|
|
C66 |
And it will then move back.
|
|
F66 |
Move back to ... ?
|
Non-standard CLQ to identify location and keep Landscape embodied.
|
C67 |
Not so close.
|
|
F67 |
Not so close to ... ?
|
And again.
|
C68 |
The children
|
|
F68 |
So not so close to them, move back. And move back to where?
|
And again. |
C69 |
To my corner.
|
|
F69 |
And whereabouts is your corner?
|
|
C70 |
It’s over the other side.
|
|
F70 |
The other side of ... ?
|
And again – the fifth location question in a row.
|
C71 |
I don’t know. The parenting room.
|
|
F71 |
Move back to your corner of the parenting room.
|
|
C72 |
Closer to the corner.
|
|
F72 |
And then what happens?
|
F61-F71 developed the effects. Now we return to following the sequence of the effects of achieving the desired Outcome (started at F60).
|
C73 |
And then we die [claps hands once] - happily. I suppose. And then it’s different.
|
|
F73 |
And so what needs to happen for you to take that kilo out?
|
Given the client has started specifing necessary conditions (C63) we continue here.
|
C74 |
They need to resolve it and reconcile.
|
Client returns again to her "really want" (as in C31).
|
F74 |
Which they’re going to do in their own time. Which may not be before you die.
|
Recapping her current reality again (see F15 & F32).
|
C75 |
Yes. So that makes me dependent on them. And I don’t want that. I want to reclaim my own agency. I want not to care so much.
|
New desired outcome (13) "reclaim my own agency". and repeat of "not care' Remedy of C8.
|
F75 |
So where is it at the moment when you want to reclaim it?
|
Locating new symbol "agency".
|
C76 |
[Sigh] I don’t know. It’s gone.
|
|
F76 |
Where was it before it went?
|
Ok, the client doesn't know where "agency" is now, maybe she knows where it was when she had it.
|
C77 |
In here [right fist to chest again]. It’s in here with all the other things.
|
Interesting how much of client's experience is located in the same area.
|
F77 |
In the heart.
|
|
C78 |
Yes [laughs]
|
|
F78 |
So it was in there and then what happened, just before it went?
|
Asking client to attend to how her "agency" went.
|
C79 |
They chose to be this way with each other. And chose to resist my attempted interventions. Chose to ignore all of that so I had no impact on them. I had no powers of persuasion.
|
Ah, so when they "chose to be this way" (their agency) she lost her "powers of persuasion" (her agency).
And is the client 'resisting' her own attempts to intervene and change her inner conflict? [You might think she is 'resisting' our attempts to intervene – except we are not trying to change anything.]
|
F79 |
So no impact, no powers of persuasion. And what happened to your agency?
|
|
C80 |
It left. It went.
|
|
F80 |
What happened just before it went?
|
|
C81 |
I kept speaking to them separately to try to reconcile them.
|
|
F81 |
And that didn’t work.
|
Recapping her current reality.
|
C82 |
[Shakes head]
|
|
F82 |
So what kind of agency is an agency that leaves when they won’t reconcile?
|
This a very direct question as it potentially reveals the deficiency that means the client is unable to handle the situation (i.e. unable to persuade her children to do what she wants). |
C83 |
It’s an agency that’s been rendered powerless. It’s lost, it's run out of fuel, lost its engine, nose dived into the sea. It’s gone.
|
A stream of metaphors indicates the significance of this to the client.
|
F83 |
Lost its power to intervene with your children. And when I want to reclaim my own agency, what kind of I is an I that wants to reclaim it?
|
This question directs attention to the Pereciver. If her agency has gone, how come she still has a "want to reclaim it"?
|
C84 |
A mature, intelligent, self-directed individual who has the right to have agency. It’s the me that I was before this happened.
|
|
F84 |
A mature, intelligent with the right to have agency that you were before this happened. And so what needs to happen for that I to claim that agency?
|
|
C85 |
[Looks right, out the window]. In the absence of them being reconciled?
|
Now the client is keeping current reality in the foreground. |
F85 |
Yes.
|
|
C86 |
It’s my own acceptance of the fact that they are who they are, it is what it is, and I will reclaim my agency by not trying to make them do what they’re not ready to do. — But I don’t believe that.
|
A clear bind. She doesn't believe the logic of the conditions necessary for her desired outcome to happen. And hence the unlikelihood of "convincing" herself "there's nothing I can do". (C8).
|
F86 |
You don’t believe it.
|
|
C87 |
I say it but I don’t believe it. Not down here [touches heart with left fist].
|
|
F87 |
What don’t you believe?
|
|
C88 |
That that can be called agency. In other words, not changing what’s out there, but changing my own reaction to it [left fist to heart]. [Pause] Well, yes, that would be agency, but I can’t imagine being able to do it. That’s like saying to me, from this time forth there will be no more oxygen or water available to you.
|
Ah, she doesn't believe it because she "can't imagine being able to do it".
|
F88 |
So you can’t believe that you can reclaim that agency.
|
It would have been better to have put attention on the more embodied "imagine" rather than the conceptual "belief".
|
C89 |
No.
|
|
F89 |
So when you don’t believe that you can reclaim that agency, unless they resolve it, and that doesn’t look like it’s going to happen, what would you like to have happen?
|
Summerising the bind and asking what she would like when that's the way things are (same as F30, F33, F43, F56).
|
C90 |
[Pause] Ask me that again.
|
A common reaction to this question when asked in the context of a bind.
|
F90 |
And when you don’t believe you can reclaim the agency, in there, what would you like to have happen when you don’t believe you can reclaim the agency, and you need to reclaim that agency to have that peace of mind and to take that kilo out?
|
Bringing current reality of the bind into the foreground and putting the ball firmly in the client's court (i.e. back with her agency!).
|
C91 |
Well I have to shift my attitude about agency.
|
A subtle shift in desired Outcome and still couched in "have to" terms.
|
F91 |
Shift your attitude about agency. What kind of shift would that shift be?
|
|
C92 |
Well, stop having it matter so much.
|
Another subtle shift from "not care" (C8) to not "matter so much" about her lost agency.
|
F92 |
So the shift would be to stop having it matter so much. Anything else about that shift?
|
|
C93 |
[Shakes head]
|
A similar reaction to C30 but ...
|
F93 |
No? So whereabouts is the attitude that needs to be shifted?
|
... this time we are going to stay put and embody, embody, embody!
|
C94 |
The attitude is in here [right fist touches heart].
|
|
F94 |
So the attitude is in there! Whereabouts in relation to the wants and the cloud and the acceptance that’s all in that heart. Whereabouts is the attitude?
|
With so much in the same place, how does the client distinguish these emotions, beliefs, attitudes – we wonder?
|
C95 |
Maybe it’s all wrapped in attitude [right hand encloses left fist].
|
"Wrapped" again (see C24), like "Russian dolls"? (C42)
|
F95 |
So what kind of wrapped is the wrapped of that attitude.
|
|
C96 |
Bubble wrap. So it’s light, but it’s protective.
|
|
F96 |
So the attitude is protecting all of that. And bubble wrap, anything else about that bubble wrap that’s protective and light and wrapping all of that up?
|
|
C97 |
I suppose it’s protecting it because it’s invested in my identity. It’s who I am. I need for my kids to have a good relationship. If they don’t I’m no longer who I am. So the shift would have to be that I change who I am. Change who I see I am. Feels a bit long in the tooth to make those changes. Much easier if they just reconciled. [Laughs]
|
Back to where we started (see C1, C31 & C74)
|
F97 |
Much easier! Much much easier, as you’ve been telling them, no doubt! And intervening for all this time, and it’s been getting worse.
|
Reitterating current reality.
|
C98 |
I’ve stopped trying, really. How many times can you be told to mind your own business mum?
|
|
F98 |
Quite a lot it seems.
|
And again (said playfully).
|
C99 |
[Laughs] I said 9 months, not 9 years!
|
|
F99 |
So the wrapping of all of this is protective and it’s because your identify is invested in them reconciling. And if they don’t reconcile then you’d have to see yourself – who would you see yourself as?
|
Non-standard CLQ that uses logic of C97, "Change who I see I am" to identify the new identity. |
C100 |
I’d have to change my truth.
|
This would explain the apparent 'reluctance' (see F3, C8, F34)
|
F100 |
So whereabouts is that truth?
|
|
|