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C41 I think I understand it. I mean I think I understand it. I think I can see their individual perceptions and how entrenched they are. It's just that I don’t want to die before I've resolved it, or they’ve resolved it, or it’s resolved.

F41 And where is that want? A want not to die before it’s resolved?

C42 That’s in there with the other wants [wipes tear from eye]. Like little Russian dolls [gestures with hands].

F42 Wants within wants, little Russian dolls. And you don’t know how long you’ve got. And where did the pollution of that cloud come from?
Decide to see if there is anymore about "pollution cloud" last mentioned C27-C30.
C43 [Big sigh, looks up high for the first time] I think it’s been building up over the years. Building up over the years. It hasn’t been dealt with in a timely fashion. Not that I haven’t tried. And so it’s just built up and built up until it’s on the point of exploding. "Building up" is client's metaphor for what we have temporarily referred to as 'escalation' (C37-C38).

"point of exploding" is a threshold.
F43 And when pollution cloud has been building up over the years, and it’s on the point of exploding, what would that pollution cloud like to have happen?
Same question as in F30 & F33 but this time it is asked of "pollution cloud" rather than "you".
C44 What would the cloud like? It depends whose side the cloud is on. If the cloud is on my side it would like to float away and just not be there anymore. If the cloud is on their side, I don’t know what they want anymore. And if the cloud is just an aspect of a malevolent universe then it will do what it wants to do.
Interesting response but it doesn't answer the question. Presumably "cloud" knows which "side" it is on (if clouds have sides that is!)
F44 It depends whose side the cloud is on. And if on your side, which side is your side?
Hoping for a spatial answer to keep the client's Metaphor Landscape embodied.
C45 My side is in the reconciliation.
No luck but interestingly "reconcile" originally meant in Latin 'bring back together' which is spatial.
F45 Your side is in the reconciliation. And there’s your side and their side. And malevolent universe.

C46 Possibly. I’m not going to close the books on that. Well I say there’s their side, as if they’re united.  They are united in the sense that they tell me to stay out of it.
Ah, so they are "united" ('joined together') about something.

Also an example of the 'mirror principle': they are not doing what she wants, and she is not doing what they want.
F46 They tell you to stay out of it. So they’re united in telling you to stay out of it.

C47 They’ve got that in common.

F47 Otherwise they’re not talking. And so then what happens when they tell you to stay out of it?  And they’re united on their side about that.
Aiming attention at the effects of them being "united".
C48 They don’t tell me that at the same time. It’s when I have a conversation with them separately. Well I argue, and say it’s not in my nature to stay out of these things, things that matter to me. I’m an interventionist by character. I can’t just sit by and watch things happen. And unless a conversation begins – even if the beginning is going to be awkward – unless a conversation begins there’s no way to build.  And they say, well one of them says it will happen in it’s own time. It might take 5 years, 10 years, 20 years. And the other one says it will happen when I’m ready but I’m not ready.  It won’t happen before I’m ready.

"build" again (C43) but in a positive sense this time.

Lots more indication that the client knows her "really want") is unlikely to happen in her timescale.
F48 And then what happens?
Continuing with effects.
C49 Well, it goes on.
F49 So you’ve been interventionist.

C50 To no avail

F50 To no avail.

C51 Yes, that’s why I said at the beginning, I want to to resolve it. I want something to resolve it. But in the fact of the fact that it doesn’t look like that’s happening, I want it resolved inside me. [Touches chest] I want to stop living with it.
"Stop living with" the inner "angst, and start to "live with" the outer unresolvable situation.
F51 So what is inside you there [points to there]?
A non-standard CLQ to identify "it".
C52 That’s what’s inside me – the conflict [touches chest with right fist].
More evidence of the inside (internal "conflict") mirroring the outside (children in conflict).
F52 The conflict is inside you. What kind of conflict is it there?

C53 It’s a heaviness.

F53 Anything else about the heaviness?

C54 A sense of failure, I suppose. My failure.
F54 A sense of failure, your failure, a sense of heaviness, a conflict. Does that heaviness have a size or a shape?

C55 [Long pause, looks out the window]  It weighs about a kilo. I don’t know about it’s size or shape.

F55 It weighs about a kilo. Anything else about it when it weighs about a kilo?

C56 It’s there all the time.

F56 So when there’s a heaviness that weighs about a kilo and it’s there all the time and that's the conflict in there, after you’ve tried all those interventions, you’ve banged your head against that brick wall, and it is how it is, and there’s that [points] about a kilo of heaviness, what would you like to have happen?
Recapping client's reality before asking what she would like – given "it is how it is". (Same formulation as F30, F33 & F43.)

Not sure where that "brick" came from!
C57 I want to take the kilo out [touches chest with right fist].
A Remedy.
F57 You want to take the kilo out.

C58 Give it to them. [laughs] No, not really give it to them. I think they feel bad about it in regard to me, but not so bad as to try to resolve it.

F58 So when you take that kilo out, then what’s there?
A non-standard CLQ that uses the client's logic to aim for a desired outcome statement
C59 [Wipes tear away] I suppose the kilo is made up of the pain and want and what’s left is acceptance.
"Acceptance" again (see C8 & C18-C24).
F59 So taking the kilo out takes the pain and the want, and what’s left is acceptance.

C60 That’s how I see it at the moment.

F60 And then what happens when acceptance is left when the kilo has been taken out? Seeking for the client to attend to the effects of her desired Outcome happening.
C61 Well I imagine I stop thinking about it, worrying about it, wanting it to be different.  I stop being their mother, I suppose, in one way.
Repeat of "less of a mother" (C7).
F61 What kind of way is that way?
Developing the effects.
C62 The way that a mother can know what’s right and know what’s best in the long run, not in the short run, in the long run. And want the best for her children. That part.

F62 And that’s the part you’ll have to stop.

C63 Well, so long as I keep wanting it, the kilo is still there. So if I want to get the kilo out, if acceptance relies on the removal of the kilo, then yes, my mothering is going to have to change shape, I suppose.
Client spontaneously identifies some conditions necessary for change.

Not for the first time the client "supposes" (see C2, C6, C7, C34, C38, C54, C59, C61).
F63 What kind of shape does it have to change to?

C64 Or have a big chunk of it cut off.  And change in temperature.
F64 Shape and temperature.  Any other ways does it have to change?

C65 If it changes shape it will probably change weight too.  Be less heavy.

F65 So shape, less heavy and temperature.

C66 And it will then move back.

F66 Move back to ... ?
Non-standard CLQ to identify location and keep Landscape embodied.
C67 Not so close.

F67 Not so close to ... ?
And again.
C68 The children

F68 So not so close to them, move back. And move back to where?
And again.
C69 To my corner.
F69 And whereabouts is your corner?

C70 It’s over the other side.

F70 The other side of ... ?
And again – the fifth location question in a row.
C71 I don’t know.  The parenting room.

F71 Move back to your corner of the parenting room.

C72 Closer to the corner.

F72 And then what happens?
F61-F71 developed the effects. Now we return to following the sequence of the effects of achieving the desired Outcome (started at F60).
C73 And then we die [claps hands once] - happily. I suppose.  And then it’s different.

F73 And so what needs to happen for you to take that kilo out?
Given the client has started specifing necessary conditions (C63) we continue here.
C74 They need to resolve it and reconcile.
Client returns again to her "really want" (as in C31).
F74 Which they’re going to do in their own time. Which may not be before you die.
Recapping her current reality again (see F15 & F32).
C75 Yes. So that makes me dependent on them. And I don’t want that. I want to reclaim my own agency. I want not to care so much.
New desired outcome (13) "reclaim my own agency". and repeat of "not care' Remedy of C8.
F75 So where is it at the moment when you want to reclaim it?
Locating new symbol "agency".
C76 [Sigh] I don’t know. It’s gone.

F76 Where was it before it went?
Ok, the client doesn't know where "agency" is now, maybe she knows where it was when she had it.
C77 In here [right fist to chest again]. It’s in here with all the other things.
Interesting how much of client's experience is located in the same area.
F77 In the heart.

C78 Yes [laughs]

F78 So it was in there and then what happened, just before it went?
Asking client to attend to how her "agency" went.
C79 They chose to be this way with each other. And chose to resist my attempted interventions. Chose to ignore all of that so I had no impact on them.  I had no powers of persuasion.
Ah, so when they "chose to be this way" (their agency) she lost her "powers of persuasion" (her agency).

And is the client 'resisting' her own attempts to intervene and change her inner conflict? [You might think she is 'resisting' our attempts to intervene – except we are not trying to change anything.]
F79 So no impact, no powers of persuasion. And what happened to your agency?

C80 It left. It went.

F80 What happened just before it went?

C81 I kept speaking to them separately to try to reconcile them.

F81 And that didn’t work.
Recapping her current reality.
C82 [Shakes head]

F82 So what kind of agency is an agency that leaves when they won’t reconcile?
This a very direct question as it potentially reveals the deficiency that means the client is unable to handle the situation (i.e. unable to persuade her children to do what she wants).
C83 It’s an agency that’s been rendered powerless. It’s lost, it's run out of fuel, lost its engine, nose dived into the sea. It’s gone.
A stream of metaphors indicates the significance of this to the client.
F83 Lost its power to intervene with your children. And when I want to reclaim my own agency, what kind of I is an I that wants to reclaim it?
This question directs attention to the Pereciver. If her agency has gone, how come she still has a "want to reclaim it"?
C84 A mature, intelligent, self-directed individual who has the right to have agency. It’s the me that I was before this happened.

F84 A mature, intelligent with the right to have agency that you were before this happened.  And so what needs to happen for that I to claim that agency?

C85 [Looks right, out the window]. In the absence of them being reconciled?
Now the client is keeping current reality in the foreground.
F85 Yes.

C86 It’s my own acceptance of the fact that they are who they are, it is what it is, and I will reclaim my agency by not trying to make them do what they’re not ready to do. — But I don’t believe that.
A clear bind. She doesn't believe the logic of the conditions necessary for her desired outcome to happen. And hence the unlikelihood of "convincing" herself "there's nothing I can do". (C8).
F86 You don’t believe it.

C87 I say it but I don’t believe it. Not down here [touches heart with left fist].

F87 What don’t you believe?

C88 That that can be called agency. In other words, not changing what’s out there, but changing my own reaction to it [left fist to heart]. [Pause] Well, yes, that would be agency, but I can’t imagine being able to do it. That’s like saying to me, from this time forth there will be no more oxygen or water available to you.
Ah, she doesn't believe it because she "can't imagine being able to do it".
F88 So you can’t believe that you can reclaim that agency.
It would have been better to have put attention on the more embodied "imagine" rather than the conceptual "belief".
C89 No.
F89 So when you don’t believe that you can reclaim that agency, unless they resolve it, and that doesn’t look like it’s going to happen, what would you like to have happen?
Summerising the bind and asking what she would like when that's the way things are (same as F30, F33, F43, F56).
C90 [Pause] Ask me that again.
A common reaction to this question when asked in the context of a bind.
F90 And when you don’t believe you can reclaim the agency, in there, what would you like to have happen when you don’t believe you can reclaim the agency, and you need to reclaim that agency to have that peace of mind and to take that kilo out?
Bringing current reality of the bind into the foreground and putting the ball firmly in the client's court (i.e. back with her agency!).
C91 Well I have to shift my attitude about agency.
A subtle shift in desired Outcome and still couched in "have to" terms.
F91 Shift your attitude about agency.  What kind of shift would that shift be?

C92 Well, stop having it matter so much.
Another subtle shift from "not care" (C8) to not "matter so much" about her lost agency.
F92 So the shift would be to stop having it matter so much.  Anything else about that shift?

C93 [Shakes head]
A similar reaction to C30 but ...
F93 No? So whereabouts is the attitude that needs to be shifted?
... this time we are going to stay put and embody, embody, embody!
C94 The attitude is in here [right fist touches heart].

F94 So the attitude is in there! Whereabouts in relation to the wants and the cloud and the acceptance that’s all in that heart.  Whereabouts is the attitude?
With so much in the same place, how does the client distinguish these emotions, beliefs, attitudes – we wonder?
C95 Maybe it’s all wrapped in attitude [right hand encloses left fist].
"Wrapped" again (see C24), like "Russian dolls"? (C42)
F95 So what kind of wrapped is the wrapped of that attitude.

C96 Bubble wrap. So it’s light, but it’s protective.

F96 So the attitude is protecting all of that. And bubble wrap, anything else about that bubble wrap that’s protective and light and wrapping all of that up?

C97 I suppose it’s protecting it because it’s invested in my identity. It’s who I am. I need for my kids to have a good relationship.  If they don’t I’m no longer who I am. So the shift would have to be that I change who I am. Change who I see I am. Feels a bit long in the tooth to make those changes. Much easier if they just reconciled. [Laughs]

Back to where we started (see C1, C31 & C74)
F97 Much easier! Much much easier, as you’ve been telling them, no doubt! And intervening for all this time, and it’s been getting worse.
Reitterating current reality.
C98 I’ve stopped trying, really. How many times can you be told to mind your own business mum?

F98 Quite a lot it seems.
And again (said playfully).
C99 [Laughs]  I said 9 months, not 9 years!
F99 So the wrapping of all of this is protective and it’s because your identify is invested in them reconciling. And if they don’t reconcile then you’d have to see yourself – who would you see yourself as?
Non-standard CLQ that uses logic of C97, "Change who I see I am" to identify the new identity.
C100 I’d have to change my truth.
This would explain the apparent 'reluctance' (see F3, C8, F34)
F100 So whereabouts is that truth?

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