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First published on 21 April 2022

Developing a Desired Outcome: Coping with un-safety

James Lawley & Penny Tompkins

The following transcript comes from our second workshop with a group Ukrainian psychologists and psychotherapists who want to use Clean Language and Symbolic Modelling to support themselves and their clients.

Also available is a transcript of a demonstration from the other webinars:
The aim of this session was to demonstrate how to use our Problem-Remedy-Outcome (PRO) model to facilitate a client to identify and develop a rich embodied experience of a desired Outcome.

The client's responses and our questions were translated by Anna Stativka and Dr. Vladislav Matrenitsky.

The session actually went further than planned since, half-way through, the client's experience started to spontaneously change. We therefore switched from facilitating the client to develop and explore a desired Outcome, to maturing the change that was happening there and then. By following the effects of the change the client experienced her change process happening in real-time and discovered what happened as a result.

We have annotated the transcript to give you a sense of the way we use the PRO model throughout the session to:
  1. Model whether the client is describing a Problem, a Remedy or a desired Outcome
  2. Inform our choice of the feature of the client’s experience we invite them to attend to
  3. Select the Clean Language question that will be most appropriate for #2.*
The general flow of the session approximately follows the Symbolic Modelling Lite process:

The process is summarised in:
Lawley, J. & Tompkins, P. (2011). Symbolic Modelling Emergent Change though Metaphor and Clean Language. In Chapter 4 of L. M. Hall & S. R, Charvet (Eds.), Innovations in NLP: Innovations for Challenging Times.

The PRO model is described in:
Tompkins, P. & Lawley, J. (2006). Coaching for P.R.O.s., Coach the Coach (Feb.).
Download from:

Note * The keen student of Clean Language will have noticed that this 3-part format has the same structure as the ‘full 3-part syntax’ of Clean Language questions:
And [repeat client's expression(s)].
And when/as [select one client expression],
(ask a clean question)?

Download complete transcript, our annotation and the client's post-session reflections here:

James Lawley & Penny Tompkins
Penny and James book, Metaphors in Mind was the first comprehensive guide to Symbolic Modelling using the Clean Language of David Grove. An annotated training DVD, A Strange and Strong Sensation demonstrates their work in a live session. James has also written (with Marian Way) the first book dedicated to Clean Space: Insights in Space. Between them Penny and James have published over 200 articles and blogs freely available on their website:
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